【週一要瞎拼】英國的華人遊客第二名景點：比斯特購物村
我常常都有一個問題：出國要買伴手禮的習俗，到底是怎麼來的？如果說是以前出國觀光的風氣不盛行的時候，幫忙帶一點小禮物回來饋贈親友（順便炫耀一下），那也無可厚非。但現在出國旅遊已經越來越不是什麼大事了，包括台灣當代臉書傳奇就是：只要你臉書上有朋友，至少有一個朋友正在日本玩，或準備要去日本玩；那麼，為什麼出國還要買伴手禮呢？
無論如何，出國亂買東西，即使是滿足自己的敗家慾望，其實也是人性吧！而英國旅遊對於華人的一個吸引點，就是位於倫敦跟牛津之間的比斯特購物村 Bicester Village/Outlet，請注意那個 c 在這裡不發音。據BBC新聞的英國人說，這裡已經是華人遊客第二多的英國景點，僅次於白金漢宮。所以，就這位牛津的BBC記者馬可仕的角度，為什麼華人這麼愛去比斯特瞎拼呢？
有興趣的人自己看BBC這則報導：
http://www.bbc.com/zhongwen/trad/world-43864495
或者拿原文報導來練英文：
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-42015714
其實就我的觀點來說，如果要買那些品牌的商品、不見得都是奢侈品牌，把 Bicester 當作一個景點，其實也沒什麼不好，反正口袋夠深就可能會很好玩。但我個人倒是越來越不愛 Bicester 了，跟所有的 Outlet 一樣，特價品項要靠運氣，有買到物美價廉名牌品就很爽，沒買到就會很惆悵（然後完全沒有完成瞎拼抒壓的效果）。
啊，忽然想到，請大家不要再私訊來問我能不能幫忙代購某些奇怪的東西了。網路上代購那麼多自己找，要不然自己飛過來英國買，要不然找國際運送的購物網站去。隨便找一個粉絲頁來問代購，你們都不怕我副業是是詐騙集團嗎？
england發音 在 [發音] 美式發音或英式發音？ - 精華區Eng-Class - 批踢踢實業坊 的推薦與評價
我有一片Collins的光碟片，發音不太一樣，我猜是英式發音，
比如像positive 它唸成”波色替夫 ”而不是”帕色替夫”
flip-flop它唸成”弗力弗漏ㄆ”而不是”弗力弗拉ㄆ”
其它還有一些音聽起來就是跟朗文的美式發音不太一樣。
我想問的是Collins是正確的英式發音嗎？
又，學英式發音會不會怪怪的，美國人會聽不懂或覺得聽不習慣？
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作者: dale (冰城城主) 看板: Eng-Class
標題: Re: [發音] 美式發音或英式發音？
時間: Fri Feb 18 14:34:44 2005
※ 引述《c23328 (man in Taipei)》之銘言：
: 我有一片Collins的光碟片，發音不太一樣，我猜是英式發音，
: 比如像positive 它唸成”波色替夫 ”而不是”帕色替夫”
: flip-flop它唸成”弗力弗漏ㄆ”而不是”弗力弗拉ㄆ”
: 其它還有一些音聽起來就是跟朗文的美式發音不太一樣。
: 我想問的是Collins是正確的英式發音嗎？
Collins 的確是英式發音。英式發音和美式發音不一樣的地方很多，
寫個幾千幾萬字都沒問題。
至於它是不是「正確的英式發音」，我很想給你一個簡單的答案，
但有個網路資源想先和你分享一下（其實之前有在這個板分享過，
但過了那麼久不知道跑那兒去）：
https://www.ku.edu/~idea/index2.html
https://www.ku.edu/~idea/europe/england/england.htm
看完之後你可以回答看看什麼是「正確的英式發音」，
因為我不知道怎麼回答。:)
: 又，學英式發音會不會怪怪的，美國人會聽不懂或覺得聽不習慣？
不知道會不會不習慣（這跟個人比較有關吧？），但不至於會聽不懂。
其實發音這種東西，是生長背景的結果，沒有必要刻意構築，
也沒有必要刻意抹煞。你手邊有 Collins 的資源──那很好啊！
就放心的學吧。:D
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作者: talkingtree (我是一棵愛說話的樹:) 看板: Eng-Class
標題: Re: [發音] 美式發音或英式發音？
時間: Sat Feb 19 22:43:36 2005
我提一個觀念，大家參考一下
其實發音沒有什麼正確不正確的，所以也就沒有什麼叫正確的美式發音
或是正確的英式發音這種東西
雖然同樣是在美國、英國境內，也會因為地域的不同，而導致發音有所
差異
這就像是我們的台語有台中腔，有台南腔、有宜蘭腔、有金門腔一樣
你能說其中的任何一種是「不正確」的嗎?
一般人所謂「標準」的英式英文，是指BBC English
也是是BBC報新聞用的英文
但是這並不表示英國境內所有人都講這種英文
也不表示你不講這種腔調別人就聽不懂你的英文
我建議不管你要學哪一種都可，重點是能一致地follow同一種就行了
不要一下美式一下英式就行了
譬如說你現在想學你手邊有的Collins光碟片的發音
那就學它的就好了，不需要那麼去care它到底是不是正確的英式發音
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作者: talkingtree (我是一棵愛說話的樹:) 看板: Eng-Class
標題: Re: [發音] 美式發音或英式發音？
時間: Sun Feb 20 14:48:09 2005
我完全贊同你的看法，現實世界的確就是如此
我只是想說其實並沒有你所謂的better/favourable pronunciation這種東西
只有better/favourable "people"
如果你覺得某些人是上流社會的、優秀的、高尚的
他們使用的accent自然會被認為是favouralbe的
反之，如果某些人是弱勢的、貧窮的、低下的
那麼他們使用的accent也相對的會被矮化
OK, 現在你覺得新加坡人講的Mandarin可能不是那麼好
但是如果今天新加坡是世界超級強國，那麼全世界要學Mandarin就會跟著他們的accent走
，你相信嗎?
如果今天台灣比中國強大的話，那麼大家也會爭相來學台灣使用的「國語」，而不會去學
「北京話」，你相信嗎?
如果今天法國只是一個位於太平洋上的黑人小島國，還會有人覺得法文好聽嗎?
很抱歉，我並不是要反駁你的看法
只是我覺得當大家在評斷一個語言、一種accent好不好的時候
其實就等於是間接地在評斷著使用它的人們
只是覺得這樣子有點…令人難過罷了
※ 引述《gianni (giovanni80  Ｉ》之銘言：
: There is "better/favourable" pronunciation.
: If you sound like Singaporian speaking Manderin,
: chances are your pronunciation is not well.
: There are favourable accents and less favourable ones.
: BBC accent is posher, and is one of the favourable accents,
: the least favourable accent is Welsh accent.
: Please go check this website about which accent is more popular:
: https://www.bbc.co.uk/voices/
: Of course people can understand you even if you speak like a savage,
: but since we are not the most popular bunch skin-colour wise,
: why do you want to repel other people further
: by using a less favourable accent?
: Collins is using standard pronunciation, the sound you said are the inverse
: c sound, we tend to use that sound when those "o"s don't pronounce as "O".
: It is different from the Std. American pronunciation, but if you compare
: the phonetic system in Br. and Am. English, you would find that Br. is
: slightly easier.
:
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作者: dale (冰城城主) 看板: Eng-Class
標題: Re: [發音] 美式發音或英式發音？
時間: Sun Feb 20 23:37:47 2005
※ 引述《gianni (giovanni80  Ｉ》之銘言：
: Because the world is superficial, and people speaking like savages are not
: likely to be taken seriously, not to say change the world's attitude.
I see that you keep referring to the savages, and apparently these
savages have despicable accents. For the sake of the other
boardmembers' learning experience (lest they learn the savage
tongue!), and for the sake of my own curiosity -- who are these
savages, exactly? ;-) I'd like to watch out for them, too! I
thought the extinction was complete back in Columbian times,
but I could be wrong. After all, what do I know? The only savage
I've heard of is Savage Garden, and they sing beautifully! :D
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作者: Scarborough (Lonewolf) 看板: Eng-Class
標題: Re: [發音] 美式發音或英式發音？
時間: Mon Feb 21 06:57:20 2005
※ 引述《gianni (giovanni80  Ｉ》之銘言：
: I said because our skin-colour already caused some difficulties in the
: white society, it is unwise to repel people furthur by using bad accent.
: Did I say anything like "every coloured people is savage like"?
: Who is the racist here?
If you still thinking our "skin color" already "caused" some "difficulties",
then your mind is still contain stereotype or discrimination. How can you
ask other people to ignore the color of the skin, when you believe it makes
a difference yourself?
I'm not saying it doesn't make a difference. Since skin color is something that
cannot be changed naturally. What I want to express, is that your idea is a
little too extreme. In US, you do not need to act the same as other people.
Generally speaking, what's the meaning of assimilation? It means to become
part of something. Not to be the same as something.
About the accent issue, I think as long as people can understand what you say,
it's acceptable. Communications involve many elements. Including body
language, facial expression, etc. Basically, as long as you can pronounce every
word according to those phonics, like KK, it should be fine. I understand
those methods aren't really perfect, but at least people can understand you.
It takes a long time to perfect the speaking.
Oh and on the last note, gianni, if you spent most of your life in Taiwan, then
you do not know the meaning of discrimination. If you've never lived as a
minority for couple years, you do not know the meaning of discrimination.
That's my impression toward certain people, when I first got back to Taiwan,
after spent 5 years in US. Oh well, even if you did spend some time in US,
you still shouldn't talking about discrmination, just as I don't feel I have
the right to talk about discrimination. Because there is no point to spread
racism to other people. what people should do, is to learn about other culture,
And try to see other people without discrimination. You have no right to
judge other people, if you are also prejudice against other people.
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作者: Scarborough (Lonewolf) 看板: Eng-Class
標題: Re: [發音] 美式發音或英式發音？
時間: Mon Feb 21 08:12:00 2005
Well, before I say anything, I want to apologize to the board manager and other
people who view this place for arguing with gianni. And I promise this will
be the last post I reply to gianni regarding this issue.
OK. here's what I think.
1. If you lived oversea for 10 years, why are you still restrict your mind to
a viewpoint this narrow? You sounds like every American is discriminating
against asian or something like that. And you cannot just divide the world
with this dichotomy.
2. I'm not saying US represented the entire English speaking world. I'm using
US as an example because I understand American culture, therefore I can
make an objective argument. Moreover, Mark Twain did say something like "If
English is a corporation, then US holds most of its share"
3. If you read American history, you'll see that every president is white male,
but this cannot serve as a correct logical argument regarding racism, because
it involves too many other issues, such as politics, precedent, etc. Therefore
too many confounding variables exists in this argument regarding presidents.Of
course, racism still exist in US, at least it is improving. If you
really want to discuss racism, I know there are many study/experiment done in
Social Psychology regarding this issue.
4. If you lived oversea for 10 years, you should know that those phonetics,
like KK or DJ, etc, are not really perfect. Even if you follow those phonetics
perfectly, you still doesn't speak "perfect" american or british English.
So do not connect my argument of "as long as you pronounce the words
according to those phonetics" to your argument of "as long as you can speak
the standard Am/Br English". Since those two arguments are two different
things.
5. I've never say this world is free of discrimination or racism. Such world
doesn't exist today, but maybe it will happen in the future. There are many
different kinds of people in the world. Doesn't matter what you do, some
people will hate you. Doesn't matter what you do, some people will like you.
Just like dale said to me today: "but I still firmly believe that for the rest
of the world, a person's character is more important than his command of the
language, which is more important than his accent".
6. We are here to discuss issue/questions regarding English. So do us a favor,
try to avoid using language that targeting at personal issue. The least you
can do is to keep your arguments toward other people's arguments.
※ 引述《gianni (giovanni80  Ｉ》之銘言：
: Excuse me, I have spent 10 yrs living overseas,
: and I am still in overseas,
: so I think I do know a little bit about racial discrimination.
: First of all, US does not represent the entire English speaking world.
: Secondly, if racism is not serious in the states, why haven't you elected
: a black president? Because even Bush is better than any black republicans?
: Thirdly, don't tell me Taiwan is not racist.
: I'll say this the 4th time:
: Since you cannot change your skin colour, why don't you improve other bits
: to make yourself more likable, say accent?
: Saying "as long as you pronounce the words according to those phonetics" is
: the same as saying "as long as you can speak the standard Am/Br English",
: of course that will be fine.
: Do you hear a lot of people pronounce the words accordingly?
: Do you know how different is Scottish pronunciation to the phonetic suggestion?
: Does that mean Scottish cannot communicate with other people?
: You know what, go ahead and pronounce those words whatever way you like,
: you can say "thank you" like "sankiu", say "yes" like "yesu" for all I care.
: If you want to live in the rosy fantasy land where
: "no one is judged by their skin colour/accent/look/language", go ahead.
: FYI, many other people do live in the real world.
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作者: dale (冰城城主) 看板: Eng-Class
標題: Re: [發音] 美式發音或英式發音？
時間: Mon Feb 21 09:06:02 2005
※ 引述《gianni (giovanni80  Ｉ》之銘言：
: Like always, the ones who don't want to check the dictionary cry the loudest.
: Savage means "people who are regarded as uncivilised",
: go to every elementary school and junior high, then you can find a lot of
: people can be "regarded" as "uncivilised". I don't know what kind of drug
: your mum was into so you could be civilised the minute you are born, but
: most of us were "uncivilised" once. So, no, savages are not extinct back in
: Columbian times, and yes, you are still the one not checking the dictionary.
Leave my mother out of this. When I mentioned the word
"third grader," I didn't expect you to jump right into
the wagon. (Bravo, by the way.)
Then again, when I mentioned the word "third grader,"
I didn't mean for you to actually act like one. But
you've proven me wrong, again and again, by stooping to
the level of your-mama insults! XD
And here I was trying to start a _civilised_ conversation. ;-)
So, my question remains: who are the savages that you speak of?
I'm sorry that this question is so difficult for you,
should I ask you to check the definition of the word "civilised?" :P
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作者: dale (冰城城主) 看板: Eng-Class
標題: Re: [發音] 美式發音或英式發音？
時間: Mon Feb 21 09:19:46 2005
※ 引述《gianni (giovanni80  Ｉ》之銘言：
: Who are the savages? uncililised people, people who are not educated,
: people who are not restrained by civilisation.
: YOU STILL ARE NOT USING YOUR DICTIONARY.
: Bravo to you to start calling people name. If you want to have a civilised
: conversation, stick to the topic and not saying something like
: "I should know better before I talk to a third grader".
It's not my fault that you placed the label on yourself.
So let's go back to the topic (since you wouldn't stop
missing it). If someone has, say, a Taiwanese accent,
is he speaking like a savage?
It's just too easy to see the fallacies in your arguments,
Where's your link between civilisaiton and accent now? :D
So, for the umpteenth time, who are these savages that
you speak of? Most of the members on this board have a
Taiwanese accent because they are Taiwanese, I sure as hell
hope that you weren't referring to them.
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